Webinar Replay: Festival of DAM 2021 | Leveraging Video Workflows and DAM

la phil dam interview

Media Asset Management, and more specifically video asset management, has its own unique challenges that are different from image or photography management. This session from the Festival of DAM explored the challenges of managing video and the associated workflows.

Watch the replay to hear from two post-production experts about their experiences making video assets available for use across organizations. They specifically looked at:

  • Evolution of DAM vs. MAM
  • What should the user experience be for workflows
  • Understanding the culture and the people to drive adoption

Leveraging Video Workflows and DAM Webinar Transcript:

Admin:  Welcome back everyone. Over to you Teresa.


Theresa Regli:  Sophie. Hi everyone, and welcome to another session about video. I know many of you joined the session with Nimmers a little while ago and we're going to start to explore this topic even more deeply in this session, “Leveraging Video Workflows and DAM”.


TR: Just in case you're in the wrong session, which we hope you're not because we want you to stay governance and regulation is track one, so if you're if you're planning to be there, you need to go back to the agenda page and then click on track one. And alternatively, if you're looking at “DAM, please meet Commerce, Commerce meet DAM”, that is track three, so you are in track two and I'm sure even though those other two sessions are fabulous, this is the place to be talking about video workflows and DAM, so we want to make sure that you put our expert panelists to the test. Please put your questions into the Q&A tab on the right hand panel that you'll see if you are in the session and I will be fielding those questions as they come in. And I think that's pretty much all the administrative information, so I'm really happy to introduce Misti and Jamie who I'm going to let introduce themselves. And then Jamie is going to give a bit of a of an intro about what he's doing in terms of video and workflow. And then Misti's got a little presentation and then we'll be happy to take questions, of course. And we've got some interesting topics planned as well. Jamie, do you want to start by coming on and talking about yourself and giving your opening talk?


Jamie Wilson:  Hey everybody, how are you doing? I'm Jamie Wilson. I am the Director of Postproduction for Showtime Networks. That makes me responsible for all their short form postproduction. We make promos, we do trailers, we do all of that sort of thing here in New York. But first, I'd I'd like to thank the people at Henry Stewart for asking me to participate. Asset management and video workflows are not now, never have been, and probably will never be one of those things you tap for small talk, so it's great to be around people who have a genuine interest in it and be in a forum like this where ideas and knowledge can be shared.


In my position at Showtime, I'm responsible for a few big picture functions that are part of a complex process by which a promo or trailer or what have you is created. There's the acquisition of Media preposition of preparation of that media and placement of that media so that various people can get ahold of it for screening and edit. But here's where the rub is. The media requirements for screeners are pretty simple. They need to be able to find whatever clip or episode they need and watch it not be significantly different from the subscribers that will eventually, fingers crossed, be searching for the same thing on the web, or God forbid on the network.


The creative staff, however, need to screen this footage for storyline, yes, but also with an eye toward compelling images that will inspire the aforementioned subscribers to hand over a number of hours of their time and their dollars to watch. Asset management is crucial to both of these functions, and though they are similar, the creative user needs to be able to make notes pull and share clips, and respond to feedback while the Screener needs to simply watch an episode. Why does this matter? It matters because as managers we are responsible for the user experience, and when you have two separate needs to be fed from one source that can get complicated. However, like many other human difficulties, knowing that you have the problem is 90% of the way to the solution. Before we had a MaM (Media Asset Management software) to help us with all this at Showtime, we had to make organizational decisions about what we thought would be the easiest way for users to find what they needed.


We decided that at the finder level we would make sure all assets were in our House codec. In order to ensure a positive edit experience and minimize troubleshooting pathways, we decided to create prefixes for every show and start the filename of all edit materials and projects with those prefixes to make them easily sortable. We made sure that job numbers were used on project specific assets for clarity and to make it easy to find them. Putting all these things in place was not simple.


It took much thought and debate and it took an understanding of how to create the types of files we wanted, and then the creation of a workflow to achieve that end. However, once that was done and the users understood how it all worked was just maintenance to keep it going. Now all that I just described to you about our file based workflow is really just the creation of metadata. And as you are all probably aware, metadata is everywhere.


“I would argue that the greatest source of frustration experienced by day-to-day users of metadata based tools is bad metadata.”


JW:  Let me give you an example. At my home I have some decking that leads to my front door and my wife and I decided to upgrade it by replacing the balusters and improving the hand rails. So like good 21st century consumers, we went right to the web and started searching for these items at a couple of the big box home improvement stores. However, it proved to be an exercise in frustration because punching in keywords “balusters” or “deck rails” returned wide and varied results.


We were greeted with full deck replacement systems, various types of decking materials, hardware and any number of items that circled around the things we actually asked for. We did eventually find what we were looking for after having long run out of expletives but it took far longer than it should have. I wish I could say I was surprised, but this is the experience I often have when I'm looking for something very specific. When I'm working with a team on a MaM, these are the lessons I turned to as we try to design an environment which will provide acceptable results to the users.


I don't think that the goal of a search in a MaM should always be for the exact clip that the user has in mind to be returned every time by itself on a velvet pillow, but it should reduce the number of possible selections to a manageable number, and within that number the perfect returned clip should be able to be found. Of course, this does assume that the user knows how to search. They do have some responsibility, but that's a topic for another discussion. Suffice it to say, understanding who you are designing the environment for, and how they think will get you very close to an effective metadata schema that does much of the work for you, and that's part of a big part of building an effective workflow.


As humans, we like things to be simple and obvious, and the purpose of metadata within a MaM is to provide that experience. The irony is that providing that to our users is anything but simple and obvious. It can require a familiarity with the people you're trying to service and an understanding of that culture. The most difficult part is resisting the temptation to make it work for you, because usually it's not for you. So how does all this relate to workflows in a video environment?


Introducing a MaM to a creative environment is a little like explaining cloth diapers to a millenial. They understand it, but they don't want you to get into too much detail. Digital asset management workflows need to be at least to those new to the idea metaphors to the file folder based workflows that the users are accustomed to. As cool as we think it is to punch in a couple of keywords to get an expected result, the people who need this tool to get their jobs done have different goals and we need to have that in mind when we design these systems.


So when approaching this, it's a good idea to observe the creative animal in its native environment. How do they decide what they need to see? Do they approach the acquisition of materials differently based on the project they're working on, or do they always do it the same way? Are they using the system you put in place or have they come up with their own way of doing it? If so, why? What works for them in the existing workflow and what doesn't? Do they ever wonder why the system doesn't work in a different way?


Although these are all good questions to be asking, it's important to remember that you will not get the same answers from any two people so you need to look for similarities in their answers. Sometimes the ancillary comments are more valuable than the direct answers. You may learn more from an answer like “Ugh, I'm just so tired of having to log into everything” or “so many steps to get what I want”. When you hear these things, it's important to take into consideration who that person is: Are they generally tech impaired? Do they have a degree in computer science from MIT? Are they somewhere in the middle?


Whatever the skill level the majority of users have, you'll need to design this system around it and accept that the fringes will need to be handled separately. The next thing to consider is the product you purchased that will create the environment that you hope to provide and the workflows you hope to build. There are so many out there and they all work differently, so look at as many as you can and figure out which one is right for you.


Understand that even the most sophisticated turnkey system, which is a unicorn, will require some customization as it's impossible for any company to anticipate the workflow needs of any other company. Questions you want to ask might be: Is it a complete system with built in workflows to which you need to adapt, or is it more of a tool for creating custom workflows and building a system from the ground up? What’s the interface like. Is it utilitarian, like a tool for managers, or is it designed to appeal to general and created users? Does it do anything that no other system does? What are the bells and whistles? Does it have an AI component for example? What is the learning curve for average users? What to support look like? How many engineers do they have on staff? What is the depth of knowledge and familiarity with the product that their tech support is expected to have? Do they have solid hands on experience with the code or are they reading from a manual? What infrastructure will you need to have on site for this product to work?


These are just a few of the questions that you might have as you shop around, but there will be plenty more that become apparent as your knowledge and experience increases. Finally, the word of the day will be simplified. Whatever the workflows that you adapt, they need to be easy and logical. Understand that you are a power user and as such have a deeper understanding of how these systems work on what they can do. It's unreasonable to expect your new users to see it and so use it the same way you do. Now this is not dumbing it down. Instead, this is understanding that the end result that your users are expecting is just one stop on their creative road trip and you are there to provide an HOV lane. Once they've been down that road a few times, they may look for more creative ways to use it and may actually contribute to its design. But in the beginning it's about adaptation and that will be lubricated greatly by creating workflows inside your DAM system that resemble the ones they already know.


So to recap: You may have a design system for differing user needs. You have to keep both of these in mind when you're putting together a new DAM-based workflow. Building a system that's intuitive and obvious is not a simple task. It requires that you consider who your users will be, and that may mean spending time with them to see how they work. Whatever workflow you come up with needs to be familiar to your users. The ubiquitous video editing tool from Avid Media Composer, for example, was designed to be a metaphor for film editing, so editors could understand it. Had Final Cut X had been first, we might all still be editing with razor blades and tape.


Don't build it for you. Build it around the experience and job function of your end users. This doesn't mean that you shouldn't fill it with sophisticated tools to help you maintain it, and the assets it contains, but those tools shouldn't be on the first page. Finally, keep in mind the experiences you've had with search based products in your own life. Remember those successes and frustrations and keep them in mind as you design a system for someone else.


Thanks for listening. Now I'm happy to hand this off to Misti Vogt from Orange Logic. Misti…


Misti Voigt: Thank you so much, Jamie. Alright, I'm gonna go ahead and share my screen and we’ll get started. Alright. So Jamie, excuse me. Can everybody see my screen really quick?


TR:  Yeah it's great, perfect.


MV: Thank you. Thanks Jamie. Wow you brought some really great insight and I feel like it was a perfect segue into some of the workflows within DAM that I'm going to be talking about right now. So first, I'm Misti Vogt, I'm with Orange logic where they call me the efficiency guru where I focus on efficiency, both organizationally and within the product. I'm looking forward to spending a few minutes to speak with you today about why the right DAM is perfectly placed to handle your complete video production workflows. Let's get started.


So you hear this saying a lot: “A Jack of all trades is a master of none”, but that's not the whole saying. “A Jack of all trades is a master of none, but oftentimes better than a master of one.” It doesn't make sense to have one specialized tool for every workflow or requirement. In fact, we now know it introduces a lot of complexity and friction.


There's a tendency in tech and that is to specialize. I used to think this was the case because it became really trendy with extensibility and APIs. They're really fascinating, but it's really just the natural life cycle of a product. As an industry matures, vendors are able to develop more comprehensive solutions, so let's take a look at a real life example we can all relate to.


When I got my first phone and I'm going to age myself here a little bit, but in 2002 it was just that: a phone. I remember texting someone Hi: “44…wait…444” and now we all know it's certainly not just a phone anymore, it's a camera, a rolodex, entertainment system, fitness guru. You can run businesses from your phone and you can even film feature length films. Alright, so now we're going to step back a moment and look at the general culture shift from images to video. So we've got you 2 billions of views every single month. Video streaming is up 44% year over year. Instagram has shifted their strategy from an image sharing platform over to a more video and entertainment based platform. TikTok, I've got it. Likely all of you have it as well and all of our kids. TikTok was the number one most downloaded app in 2020 and as you might expect here we are today. Zoom minutes increased by 3300%.


Alright, now we're going to take a look at the history of DAM. In the early days of DAM systems were used as a way to simply optimize the storing and organizing of photos and other assets. But the definition of a digital asset has evolved to include all things digital, from PDF to NFTs and even work orders, and because the jack of all trades master of none, discussed a few slides ago and the rapidly growing SaaS industry systems were siloed. Today, we've seen organizations with not only multiple specialized systems, but multiple DAMs, MaMs, project management tools, etc.


A DAM is the heart of an organization's media, so it should be positioned in such a way that it’s the central source of truth for any workflow which results in a digital asset.

The video space itself is rapidly evolving and there are some DAM vendors that have embraced the video culture more than others. So when I started in the SaaS software space seven years ago, I was actually in the production space. I worked on a very niche product catered to the highly decentralized production workflow specialized in post production.And when I would go to customer sites, there was always one common question: How does this connect to our DAM or MAM? And the answer was it doesn't today. At the time there wasn't a solution that could easily manage your workflows and still have all the infrastructure feed stability and the requirements of a DAM.


So another real example, the loss of raw assets. So consider how many of you have raw assets on a disk somewhere on a land or tucked away somewhere in a storage room and couldn't find them if you needed them. At least you couldn't find them easily. How much easier would it be to have those raw assets in the same place as the final assets tide together for the tie together with the request for the production itself, interconnected to the rest of the archive? So how can DAM help? Today? We all know that DAM has the basics covered: Search, discover, organize and classify. And when you're talking video, DAM, MAM, you're talking speeds and storage strategy to support your large and ever growing file size. Note I didn't say storage capacity. DAMs can always get you more storage, but a DAM should also help you store thoughtfully so your large files are saved to less expensive cold storage and hot storage is reserved for needed now assets like proxies.


So recently it's become common to see videos rolling in at one terabyte for one video, and I'm sure there are larger ones out there. So even storage and speed probably don't seem that revolutionary, but video assets more often times than other types of assets tend to be very sensitive, with lots of shades of grey. Permissions, conditional permissions, role based permissions, and even talent approval workflows to give you the level of control needed to protect your assets will still making them accessible to the people who need them. A DAM isn't necessarily an editing tool, though it can and should perform some editing functions, but there are some important integrations that should feel like their extensions of the DAM. So a good example is if you have an editor, your editor wants to live in Adobe Premiere or Pro Tools, but their work lives in the DAM and that live connection adds a layer of visibility that's been missing.


Alright, so we're going to take a really quick look, hypothetically speaking, at a simple workflow. If we work to facilitate the workflow through DAM, we're going to start all the way back in the pre production.


You get a request for some B-roll for a Mother's Day project. You create a folder in your DAM, add metadata and this represents the production project. You can assign participants like the producer, associate producer, directors, creatives, and identify key deliverables like storyboards, creative direction, and production plan. And here's one of the cool things: your storyboards and research material can be uploaded directly to that folder and then we look at the production so you can create a sub folder under the original request, assign the participants your talent, production staff, camera crew, hair and makeup riggers, lighting crew, on and on. Then you can calendar the production on the timeline, the camera crew can upload their dailies right into the folder via upload link or a live stream connection from their devices into that folder and then sync those assets right into the production folder. Once the production wraps, it will kick off the post production workflows.


This is the fun part. Alright. So what we'll do in post production is we assign the editors. You can assign a group of editors, because sometimes we've got lots of freelance editors and we want to put the work out there so the next available editor can pick it up and claim it from the queue. The editors have direct access to a tightly knit integration with Adobe suite so they can stay focused on the project deliverables rather than trying to track down the information or the assets. The creative team can provide feedback to the editors through annotations until the final edits are uploaded as versions of the originals. Now remember these are all associated with the raw materials and any creative direction details provided as part of the original production request. Then all finals are uploaded but you have some talent that requires approvals from their agent before any assets featuring them can be used. Assets can be sent to agents who can review and approve assets within the DAM in a dedicated workspace.


Assets are tagged by the archives team and made available for use within the organization or for external consumption. Some assets may be shared to external video streaming partners or social media. This might sound like an oversimplification, but that's the point. It should be incredibly simple. The production space has become very tangled and complicated because there are so many masters of one. It's possible to bring it all under control by connecting your workflows and assets and centralizing communication through your DAM.


Thank you very much, Teresa, Jamie.


TR:  Great thank you, Misti, thank you Jamie. Just trying to get my video back on here. Hold on…here we go. So many buttons. That was great. I think you know you brought back some memories for me Misti. I remember my first portable device being a Blackberry that wasn't a phone it was just an email device. You know back in the day, I think, I don't know when that was but about the same time, I think 2002, 2003 and I also love Jamie your expression of returning on a velvet pillow. I wish I had my assets that way as well,right?


JW:  Well, I think that's that's the expectation a lot of people have. You know, I'm gonna ask this magic box a question and it's going to give me exactly the answer I want, right? It's like life that way but you know at the end of the day it's not really about that. You know it's about taking, you know, a million assets and turning them into maybe 15 that you pick from? That's right, that's right.


TR:  We've got a lot of questions coming in from the audience, and I see a lot of you on the session, so please put your questions in the Q&A tab and I'm going to start asking them now and one of the first ones that came in was about rights management. Actually, and someone was interested in in how you handle…actually someone… Michael Snow. One of my favorite people in the DAM industry. I've known him for, like, so many decades, so he wanted to know when do you include rights management for talent in videos and maybe both of you could talk a little bit about handling rights management and you know, when should you and when you need it. I think it's probably particularly relevant question for you, Jamie, given the kinds of media that Showtime is managing.


JW:  Yeah, well, it's a good question. You know, rights management starts, you know at post because you know we do projects. You know, recently we've had some projects that were highly sensitive things that we couldn't even really share with people in the company.


My favorite example of that was a Dexter season four last episode spoiler. Dexter's wife was murdered, but nobody s, nobody in the company except for three people, saw that last episode. So the end of that last episode until the day before it aired. That's highly unusual for us because I'm getting dailies, we're cutting promos. Three months out, four months out so you know, that's where the rights management starts, and then you know it becomes, it becomes about once the completed spot is done, who's getting it and what are what are they doing with it?


We don't embed any code or any watermarks into our spots that we that we put out there we you know, but we do control where they broadcast from, I mean they all come from our NOC. If we, if we've given them to a partner like YouTube or Hulu or something like that, we count on their rights management to, as I understand it, to handle to handle that OK.


TR:  Misti any thoughts on rights management? I have too many thoughts on it.


MV:  I know. I think coming from the software perspective…I think it's just really important that your DAM or MAM has different layers of rights because you're, I mean rights management is so multifaceted you can talk about the rights of the people that are featured so your performers, your talent, the rights of the actual spot itself, the rights within the organization. Jamie you just mentioned a great example with Dexter. I mean you had to isolate that material from most of your organization, so I think it's just important that you have a tool that can address those and streamline them, so maybe you could pre program them and have them automated based on status changes or something like that,


JW:  Right? And we do that within our within our MAM where you know just, you know you have people who have certain roles, and those roles can see certain things and you know we just make it difficult for people to see things they can't see. You know somebody who doesn't have the right to see something when they search for it…they get nothing, they get nothing back, you know, yeah.


TR:  I think probably the question also has to do with the consumer perspective. So I know for example, as someone you know, before the pandemic, constantly going back from EU, the UK, like I would have a an account with a streaming service and there were things I could watch, ok, that I couldn't watch in the US and then I would get back to the US and I could see series that I couldn't watch in the UK. So I think I think a lot of them, we talk about what streaming video has to do with also with what the consumer can see right, based on location.


JW:  Well and so much of that has to do with you know, I mean a really good example of that is when when we're cutting, we gotta try, everything we cut has to also be set up to air internationally. But if we are using a track, um, you know we might spend $67,000 on a music track. A piece of pop music, sure. Well, we're not buying worldwide rights for that. You know, so we have to. We have to re- we have to choose new music to go in that spot, and that's not an easy thing to do because you've built the spot around that meat, that original cut you know.

So anything, you know, Teresa, any spot you see from Showtime is going to be different. If it meant aspect than the one that you know Misti is going to see in California because we have to pull all that stuff out, and it's a real problem with documentaries and footage where you know licensing is a is a huge part of the process.


TR:  Yeah? OK, we've got a lot more questions somebody would like to know. Is there a specific Metadata standard that you recommend or that you follow? Do you have a favorite or is your metadata sort of customized? I mean in the case of in the case of Jamie, is your metadata so specific to Showtime that you're not even really following a standard?


JW:  No, I think you have to have standardized metadata. I think you need to have, you know, specific metadata libraries that are drawn from.You have to have somebody, you know, Teresa…This morning you were talking about, you need somebody who runs that thing. You know, you need a person whose job it is to maintain that and make sure that people stay in their lane. If you don't have specific metadata and that metadata, by the way is specific to your company or whatever, you decide that metadata should be, but if you don't have one person who's making sure that that is consistent, then you end up with all kinds of problems, you know, if you don't, if you have people typing in the name of this series, for example. You've got people maybe misspelling it. You've got, you know, you've got, which is the biggest problem, hyphens, or quotes, or those kinds of things, you know. So we spend a lot of time coming up with what things are going to be called in the MAM, you know?


TR:  Misti, what's your experience with this in terms of standards…any favorites or any recommendations?


MV:  I hear this a lot. If this is a standard and I think it's important to have a few of the standards just available as a starting point and then as Jamie mentioned with the intricacies of every organization, you're going to have to have your own set of fields, but that should just accompany the standards.


JW:  I was gonna say, whatever metadata you choose to use, you know, as I was saying in my presentation, it has to be relevant to the people that are going to be using the tool, you know, right? Nobody, you know, when the creative users of Showtime are looking for something, then I'm looking for the shoot that happened on August 9th where they shot in a RED Cam on a rainy, you know, you know, in Europe, they're looking for the shot of Angelina Jolie on the street, in the rain, you know. So you really have to know who your audience is.


TR:  Someone wants to know about audio versus video. Do you handle audio or do you manage audio very differently? Do the workflows that…Misti, for example, that you talked about or they also apply to audio, and does Showtime handle audio any differently?


MV:  Yeah, I think, um, you can basically take the entire production workflow and apply the exact thing to an audio track. It gets requested. You have to hire talent, it gets produced, edited post production. So yeah, I absolutely agree that the audio workflow is very similar, although there are, there are some uniqueness when it comes to audio, like repeating tracks, small tracks and in order to you need to have all the information without having to jump between a lot of different systems.


JW:  Yeah, yeah you know Misti, you said in your presentation about how everything is is an asset now right so, Audio is an asset too, but you know to the point you just made, you can have, you can have stereo audio, or you can have 12 tracks of audio and um, it gets tricky with video because if I'm working on a low res. proxy of something, and that the audio configuration on that proxy isn't the same as its high res counterpart, I can't link them inside the video application, so yeah, audio is treated just like another asset. But your MAM, whatever you choose to use, needs to be able to handle multitrack audio both in a low res and high risk scenario.


TR:  That's great. That's a great point, um interestingly, let's compute kind of technical questions, talking about lo-rez., hi-rez, people are asking us about transcoding and people are asking how do you handle transcoding? Do you pre convert or do you treat things as individual assets? Do you export on demand? And then people are asking about like what's your in-house codec? How do you handle raw footage? So a lot of this kind of having to do with different formats and different codecs and transcoding. Can you maybe talk a little bit about that, Jamie? I think there's multiple questions relating to this topic.


JW:  OK, so. You know, back when I first started, um, everything was on tape, you know, and it was just tape and now you've got, you've got RED Cam, you've got H264 off your phone, you've got DSLR, you've got all kinds of things that are coming at you. And it can be really tricky to manage that. What we decided long ago was that we were going to have one house codec which is Prores 422-1080. 23.98fps, that we were going to convert everything to. And we do that because we've eliminated all kinds of possible problems if somebody is having an issue while they're trying to edit. We don't get rid of those files because many of those files now we're getting things shot in 4K, some things in 6K and depending on what that media is for, you really might need that.


You know, for example, if you're doing a green screen shoot you need high, high resolution to really be able to take advantage of the green screen, and so yeah, you may want to do your basic at it in 422, but you're gonna want to do your green screen work in that 6K file, because that's just what you're gonna want to do. A lot of people, a lot of producers like to shoot in 4K because they like to be able to manipulate the image. That's fine, but you know that's you're going to go back to that and you're going to finish in that. Um, we don't broadcast in 4K, um and so at the end of the day, it all ends up being a high def file. But we do transcode everything that we get to ProRes 422 and ProRes proxy. We use, we use, you know, on site appliances to do that. We do it in Vantage, you know, but there's plenty of other…we also use media encoder and we use lots of other tools. As we go to the cloud, we're really starting to look seriously at having everything in the cloud and doing all that processing up there because you have the access to, you know, instead of, you know, 10 or 12 cores I've now got I don't know 10,000 cores you know to take that two hours of 8K footage and turn it into 422 in about 5 minutes, you know, so things are evolving heavily in the cloud world and I hope that shine some light.


TR:  That's an understatement, no thanks to the pandemic. I think that's been accelerated as well. We talked a little bit about that in the last video session about if it weren't for the cloud, how would we have done anything? So we've decided we're not talking right now without yeah, I know exactly. Yeah, lots more questions here. So let me let me start going through them. Somebody asked about embedded metadata, you know, does this actually work on multiple systems? So if you create metadata for example and embed it in a file and save production system and then it's going to move into MAM and then maybe it gets deployed onto a streaming service. I think this is a good question for both of you. You know how does that work? Like can you, can you actually expect that it meant embedded metadata is going to transfer along the chain and is going to move along the chain of the different solutions.


JW:  What I would say is this, when we used to, we used to put our, um, closed captioning on user closed captioning channel for various things. Problem is when you're talking about a video file, as soon as I export that file as another file, I can't guarantee that anything that I've embedded in it is going to follow 'cause if I'm changing a 422 file to an H264 file, I'm completely rewriting that file. Yeah, I don't know. You know Misti, you may have more insight into that more on the tech side.


MV:  Yeah, from a technical perspective and I can speak to how we do it, but I'm sure a lot of other systems are very similar. So we do mapping, so this goes back to the standards question, which I think was one of the first questions on why it's important to have standards in your metadata. It's because it makes this mapping a lot easier, so it should, and I think we're getting better and better across the board at being able to transfer embedded metadata, but you have to train the system to do it, so you have to say this embedded metadata schema needs to map to this metadata schema in my platform, and then if you export it, it should go, in theory, travel along with the asset, but then it's up to the next system to be able to use that information that comes with the asset.


TR:  Great example. Yeah it is. It is a big, I mean, it's such a big issue I think for even when we talked about rights, so I mean to take it back to the first question, you know, it's if you're creating and you have the rights information and then is it going to actually transport to the deployment systems. If you have instructions and things like that. So yeah, it's your point that changing the transformation of the file sometimes messes that up entirely. But yeah, it's not necessarily an easy one to solve. In terms of, uh, another question, what does your team look like?


So I think Jamie this is a specific one for you: Is DAM run by your editing department? Do you have data Wranglers or do you have a DAM specific team? And maybe Misti you could talk about the experience of some of Orange Logic clients as well. How do you usually structure these sort of video teams?


JW:  Well, we have a specific DAM team at Showtime that is handling…It's been handled by media managers up until just recently. We're doing some structural changes. The DAM team is going to be handling all video as well as the DAM handled stills. Now, it's going to be handling everything, which is a great thing, so it's a separate team that handles all the digital assets for Showtimes video, audio and stills. And they're going to be the ones who are ingesting and applying metadata. However, my media managers are the ones who will still be pulling down the media. They will be transcoding the media and handing it off to the DAM team and edited schemas are things that we work together on. So that's sort of the long and the short of it. The media managers handle the downloading and preparation of the media and the DAM team sets up the ingested data into the MAM and applies the metadata and gets it out. Yep, ok Misti anything to add to that?


MV:  I mean yeah, that's pretty much the same thing that we're seeing…another way of describing it is the DAM team kind of is the governor of the system because oftentimes there's multiple different teams in the same system, so it's important to keep a consistent structure across the board, both with metadata, taxonomy and schema. So we'll see the DAM team kind of manage the governance, but each individual team is very into the DAM… everyday users of the DAM. So exactly what Jamie just said, that's what we've been seeing.


JW:  Yeah, it's a very good word to use Governor. I like that. We just deal with governance, I think, at least six or seven times in my keynote,


TR:  So governance.


JW:  Do you want the credit fine? Alright, Teresa fine.


TR:  I don't. I don't take credit for anything except repeating. Repeating what's important, I think we all know, but I think we all know what is important. Well, one last question, 'cause we're almost out of time. A couple questions on raw footage. How much raw footage should you keep? You know people are talking in the chat that it's challenging to find a balance between keeping assets that could be useful for the future and then driving up storage costs too much, and I get this. I'm looking forward to answer to this question 'cause as a consultant, I get it. So like what should we do with our raw stuff? You know it doesn't belong in the MAM, and then where do we put it? Does it all go in cold storage, does it go somewhere else? What do you do with your raw footage?


JW:  I don't know why wouldn't you want it in the MAM, so here's my here's my here's the thing about the costs…I think I think people are afraid of the storage cost. That's generally it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't blame you, you know. But think of it this way: you know you've got two files on your desktop, and they're both QuickTime files, and they look the same, except one of them is your nephew's bar mitzvah, and the other one is a $500,000 shoot you just did in in LA with a five or six huge stars, but you don't know which is which by looking at it, and how dangerous is that? So the point I'm making is that that footage has value no matter what, and in my opinion, you know, you don't want to get rid of it now and in the cloud will allow you to ingest it and archive it into deep, you know, deep glacier, so you're paying nothing to keep it, but it's still viewable in the MAM, because the proxy stays alive and you can get it back without a problem. You know that's really the beauty of a cloud based, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's the beauty of a cloud based MAM.


Now if you don't have a cloud based MAM, then you know that's a whole other conversation and it's, and it's a difficult one. You know, you're right. That stuff takes a lot of room and how do you store it? Do you store it to tape if you can't afford to, you know, any kind of storage like that then? Then how long you keep your raw footage? It’s just something you have to decide.


You know we can't keep it. You have to decide what's important and what's not. Why would you keep something as opposed to getting rid of something, yeah, and by the way, if it's on some drive and you don't know what drive it's on, you don't have it.


TR:  Yeah. We actually had an archivist pipe in saying it very much for duration and not necessary for keeping everything in the one in the one system. And I agree that I'm a big advocate of cold storage or archive storage for raw and having them as part of an index that you could search and then get it later, but maybe not pay the premium storage costs.


JW:  I guess it's funny because in the video, in our world today, this file based world, everyone is afraid to throw things away. My father was a television producer and director for ABC's Wide World of Sports. When I was growing up and we went to an event once. He took me to a -- it was the NCAA Wrestling Championships and in in Oklahoma. And there was a guy who's a wrestler from some other school who kind of approached my dad with a little bit of a of an attitude about how come you don't have hook up? ABC doesn't keep every event that they ever shot. And Dad started to explain about how well, you know, storage costs and tape…You know the guy didn't want to understand, but my point here is that even then when the event was the whole show, television networks didn’t keep a lot of stuff. They got rid of it. They threw away the raw stuff. They kept the show. Yeah, but were afraid to do that for some reason you know.


TR: Unfortunately, we have to wrap up. I've been getting communications that we have to wrap up, so with that thought-- my gosh we should have a whole session on that. What to do with you know, next conference, next conference, what to do with raw footage.


[Transcription Auto-Generated via Orange Logic's Cortex]

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